Join us on #KōreroWithJon as we dive into an inspiring conversation with Rosie, our incredible NZSL Hero! 🦸♀️✨
Discover her journey, passion for New Zealand Sign Language, and how she’s making a difference in the community. Don’t miss this heartwarming episode! 💬❤️
TRANSCRIPT:
Jon:
Kia ora koutou, I hope you’re all well! Oh, I’m so excited and grateful to sit and chat with the lovely and incredible person. I won’t be introducing her, she will do this herself soon! She’s amazing, she’s proud to be Deaf, Nuiean, just so you know this was the sign for Nuiean before, it’s changed to this one. More appropriate. And thirdly, proud to be a woman, a solo mum of 3 children. She also works as a NZSL teacher while also juggling roles at home! She works incredibly hard, despite the barriers she’s faced being Deaf. She still carries on and overcomes it all. She finds balance being Deaf and Nuiean, part of both worlds, deeply connected with those important parts of her identity.
Oh, guess what the exciting news is?! She’s successfully now the NZSL Hero for this year 2025 and maybe 2026! Amazing. I’ll now pass it on to her. Handwaves! Thank you for being here.
Rosie:
Thank you! Thank you for your time. Fakaalofa! My name is Rosie.
Jon:
Thank you! I’m so happy to sit with you here! It’s a such a unique honour to chat with you, to find out more about you and your story. I’m looking forward to it! I have some questions in mind for you…
When you were little, or a baby, what was communication with your family like when they found out that you were Deaf? How did they get your attention?
Rosie:
My family, my mum, brother (I didn’t have a sister) and my father had barriers with communicating with me, so they started using TC (Total Communication), learning basic signs like the alphabet, signing slowly. My mum and brothers signed more, my father communicated more with gestures.
Jon:
What is TC? Can you explain?
Rosie:
TC came from Australia, it’s signs based on the English structure.
Jon:
Can we show the difference between TC and NZSL?
Rosie:
Yep! So, for example in TC… I WENT TO SHOP. In NZSL, it’s more concise – I GO SHOP.
Jon:
Oh yes, that’s right… I remember using TC like – I AM GOING TO THE SHOP. Including fingerspelling “ING”. It’s much more concise in NZSL!
Rosie:
Yep! Automatically it’s more quicker in NZSL.
Jon:
Can your family, like your brother or sister, sign?
Rosie:
Yes, they can but usually little things, not everything, mixed into one. Like… a bit of TC, home signs, NZSL, all mixed together.
Jon:
But still worth it, right?
Rosie:
It’s a good challenge for me, I can code switch and adapt to different ways of communicating. It can be a struggle but I’m used to it, it’s going fine! No complaints. It’s important to be connected with your family. Yeah, I have no objections and no complaints, I still can make a connection with my family and sign a little. I’m comfortable with code switching, we still can understand each other. That’s important.
Jon:
If you were naughty, what happened then? Do they throw the slipper?
Rosie:
Yes… it was difficult because I was Deaf and they struggled with me, I couldn’t hear or wouldn’t listen, but it got easier as I grew up. I became a good girl. But yeah, it was difficult growing up.
Jon:
That’s common in many families. Did you go to a deaf school?
Rosie:
No, I didn’t. I went to a deaf unit in mainstream school.
Jon:
Did they provide teacher aides?
Rosie:
Yes, I had teacher aides that could sign alright in TC. As I grew up, TC changed into NZSL when I was 13.
Jon:
Wow, 13?!
Rosie:
No, 11 or 12 actually! When TC changed to NZSL, I was staggered but quickly got used to it.
Jon:
Did you have an interpreter at school?
Rosie:
Nope, not in the old times. No interpreters while I was growing up. I mingled with others okay. When I started college… no, before I left college at 12 or 13, we started to have interpreters occassionally. After college, I had interpreters and teacher aides regularly.
Jon:
That’s much better for accessibility, to receive and understand the same information with full access like other hearing people, right?
Rosie:
Yep, you’re right, I agree!
Jon:
If there’s no access, what would you do?
Rosie:
Your intelligence and knowledge would decrease. If nothing, then there would be barriers. Interpreters are essential for access. Or use family members to interpret, pen and paper. You can still code switch, use gestures and pointing to understand what’s happening. You don’t have to be overwhelmed, you can adapt.
Jon:
Yeah see, you’re determined, tough and assertive.
Rosie:
Of course I am! (In TC) I AM.
Jon:
That’s great! Thank you for sharing your experiences about the barriers you had, show that you still can. Deaf people can do anything in the world. Do you have any hearing or Deaf friends you can chat with in NZSL?
Rosie:
I did have hearing friends I mingled with at school, college, parties etc. They were not fluent in NZSL but we still managed to communicate through gestures. They learned a little bit of sign language. Some knew sign language well, so signing was easy with them. With Deaf friends, of course we were completely fluent in signing.
Jon:
So when you go to the Deaf Club, you just automatically code switch into full NZSL?
Rosie:
Yep.
Jon:
Yeah, I can understand that. It’s your language.
Rosie:
I’m comfortable with code switching, I’m flexible with communicating in different ways.
Jon:
Yeah, I have seen many Deaf Pasifika having the exceptional skill of being able to code switch well. It’s unique!
Rosie:
It’s about adapting to different levels of NZSL.
Jon:
You’re a solo mum of 3 children. Is it easy communicating with them?
Rosie:
Communicating with 3 children… When they were born, I used sign language with them, with some voice and signs. As they grew, they understand and know where to go. Communication is good, smooth. They can pick up spoken language from TV, cartoons, YouTube… The children are doing well, going smoothly. It is important for them to have both hearing and Deaf cultures, knowing that Deaf culture comes from me, their Deaf parents first. Then secondly, hearing culture from our hearing family members. It’s important to take in two different worlds, so they’re more open, be exposed to real life and navigate all of that knowing what they’ve been exposed to, a silent world and a noisy world.
Jon:
I agree. Look at you, you’re amazing. You can do it, and you’re doing it well. Some people feel that it’s impossible for Deaf people to succeed, but looking at you, you can. You’re showing that you can, you’re a great representation of that. I respect that. Where I will stand is where I go.
Rosie:
Yes, perfect.
Jon:
So you work as a NZSL teacher, you put on your mum hat with your children, Is that difficult? How do you do it, juggling roles that well?
Rosie:
When I first became a NZSL tutor, I didn’t have children. I taught NZSL classes as time went on… Then my mum got cancer. I continued teaching… At the time she died, before she passed away, she said to me “Remember, never give up.” I’ve kept that in my mind ever since. I became a mother, got pregnant, had children. It was hard but I kept fighting, kept going. Now I’m doing so much better, keeping my mum’s words in my mind, “never give up.” That keeps me going.
Jon:
I believe that your mum is proud of you.
Rosie:
Thank you.
Jon:
Don’t give up, stay strong.
Rosie:
Yes, that saying had a big impact on me. I didn’t have any big dips, got lost or had depression. I just kept going. It was hard, I kept fighting but I kept going. I did well.
Jon:
I believe that your mum is looking down at you, proud that you’re her daughter, passing it on to you, to always remember that.
Rosie:
While I was NZSL tutor, I also worked and took care of my mum who had cancer. There were a lot of changes. I went to university. Mum passed away, said those words to me, I kept working, taught NZSL and became pregnant. I kept going… I then resigned from my job, continued with teaching NZSL. I gave birth to 3 children. The good news is I graduated when I was pregnant.
Jon:
You were pregnant?!
Rosie:
When I first started university, I was pregnant. I continued attending classes even during my second pregnancy. Then I graduated with my third pregnancy.
Jon:
Wow! It just seems impossible!
Rosie:
I know! Everyone was astonished, but I didn’t care. I do what I want!
Jon:
Where did you graduate from?
Rosie:
I graduated from Victoria University. I did Deaf Studies.
Jon:
So that was to become a qualified NZSL teacher?
Rosie:
Yes!
Jon:
Does this mean you were the first Deaf Pasifika person to ever be in that course?
Rosie:
Yes, I didn’t expect that! I was surprised, I thought someone else was the first Deaf Pasifika but that person didn’t complete the full course. But no, it was me. What a surprise.
Rosie:
You know what? While I was pregnant at the graduation ceremony, we were lining up to go on stage. Yeah, I was heavily pregnant, still getting around fine! The baby was born the next month. So, at graduation, I went up the stage, got my certificate, carried on walking to the end of the stage… just after I got off down the stairs, someone further down the line made eye contact with me, waved and told me to look in the audience. I looked and my heart melted. I quickly went back on stage, and watched my 3 brothers do the takalo (Nuiean). When the takalo finished, we threw back to each other I-LOVE-YOU signs. Then I went off the stage again.
It was an emotional experience, it was my first time having that. I thanked my brothers and hugged them. It was an emotional experience because… I almost quit. Because… my mum died. It was only a few weeks before graduation. I’m grateful for my Deaf Studies lecturers who sent me condolences, flowers and messages saying they hope I would come back. I wasn’t sure if I would… but I went back to the course on my two feet. Because I remembered what my mum said. To never give up. I went back on my two feet, I continued going to classes, it got better and I successfully graduated.
Jon:
You’re so brave… you carried on despite all of that. I know that on the inside, you were carrying heavy grief.
Rosie:
Yes…
Jon:
You didn’t show it on your face, you just kept going. Like a duck calm on the surface but paddling fast underwater. You’re incredible. You’re a great representation for mothers in similar situations. Thank you for sharing.
Rosie:
It’s all good, you’re welcome. It’s worth it.
Jon:
What are your words of encouragement for other Deaf Pasifika?
Rosie:
I didn’t expect to be the first Deaf Pasifika in Deaf Studies, I think it would be great for more Deaf Pasifika to be involved, to have more positive role models and that can be passed on for the future.
Jon:
Yes! I totally agree with you, we’re desperate for more role models, for more of them to be involved, it’s so needed.
Rosie:
Some Pasifika Deaf can’t attend Victoria University because of their culture, which I respect and understand.
Jon:
Yes, I agree.
Rosie:
I do try to encourage them and say that you can be part of both worlds. I was the same growing up, accepting that this is my culture. But I broke the cultural norms, because I wanted my own language, to communicate, to go out. As I learned about the world, I came back to my culture, going out then back home, back and forth. And that’s fine!
Jon:
That’s really nice. Your story gives me the power, goosebumps and teary eyes. That’s so nice.
Rosie:
Oh, thank you.
Jon:
Can you explain to me what your pendant is? Is it something special to you, connected to something?
Rosie:
It’s Niuean, it’s called katoa- no, it’s kataoa. When I was small, I was involved in Niuean dances, with the clubs, socialised with others, and that’s all of my cherished memories in one place, my pendant. My treasure. My family, mother, father and my 3 brothers are Niuean. My 3 brothers have used the clubs occassionally, like for 21st birthday parties, celebrations, weddings, funerals etc. I wear this pendant, so all of that stays close to me. My Niuean ancestry has carving traditions.
Jon:
That’s such a special and lovely connection, it’s a valued tradition, to remember and to hold close to your heart.
Rosie:
Thank you.
Jon:
I’m so excited to now pass the NZSL Hero baton on to you. How do you feel? Are you nervous?
Rosie:
I am really nervous! But I know it will be a great experience for me, to dive in and explore for the foreseeable future. So, I am excited to work with Jon and the team!
Jon:
I’m excited to see you in your new role, a new face! On TV, presentations etc. The spotlight will be on you, that’s really nice. It’s great to show Deaf Pasifika.
Rosie:
You’re right, it’s not just about you, it’s also about everyone you represent, to show that they also can do this. It’s a great idea.
Jon:
Beautiful!
Rosie:
You too!
Jon:
Now it’s time to wrap up, thank you for watching this sit-down chat with Rosie! I hope you enjoy watching.